NOWhereMonkey

Ocean Rider

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  • Offline suew
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Ocean Rider

« posted: 3 years ago »
What a great and well written information piece on ocean rider,if they have nothink to hide I don't understand why they don't give you answers to your questions.They do seem to be doing things that they don't won't you to find out about.

I would like to thank you,for if it wasn't for people like you who know where to go to find out about things likr this then god knows what would go on.

We are advised not to mix wild seahorses with tank bred because of the different pathogen they can pass to each other but they seem to be doing this,plus their will be much to much inbreeding if they go ahead with what they say they are going to do.

Once more thank you for a very intresting read and well done.(wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of you)lol :) :) :)
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  • Offline TamiW
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Re: Ocean Rider

« Reply #1 posted: 3 years ago »
Ha! Thank you Sue! I really debated about writing it for the past couple months, because it did seem like it was such a contentious issue. But they have a long history of doing really sketchy things, and this seems to be the latest. And it would be so easy for them to approach this the right way without that much more effort. Which is why I recommend the other charities that I know are doing good work.

I don't get the silence either. They've always been that way. It's frustrating.

It's actually made me realize that I need to share a lot more about my fish room. I try to share info I've gleaned in the form of articles, but I think people might appreciate the innerworkings of the fish room. I had worked on my private blog for a while a seahorselab.com but stopped updating (lack of time). I'm going to try to get that going soon. Maybe do a video tour of my fish room and seahorses too.

It also really makes me appreciate Dan Underwood and Seahorse Source. He's so open and sharing with all the work he does.
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  • Offline waldend
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Re: Ocean Rider

« Reply #2 posted: 3 years ago »
Excellent article!

Is there no type of local/federal government agency approval required to proceed with a program like this? 
  • Offline TamiW
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Re: Ocean Rider

« Reply #3 posted: 3 years ago »
So there is
Excellent article!

Is there no type of local/federal government agency approval required to proceed with a program like this? 


There is! Thanks to this article, someone contacted me and I got the number for the department that handles this kind of program. I'm going to give them a call on Monday, and get their feedback.

I am really starting to suspect they're doing this program because they bred more H. fisheri than they know what to do with. They are offering a significant discount on anyone buying a group: http://seahorse.com/shop/Hawaiian-endemic-seahorse.html The picture here is excessively color corrected; I was able to color correct and get a better look at their actual color. They're still nice looking, but the hot pink coloration is from turning up the red channel in photoshop.
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Re: Ocean Rider

« Reply #4 posted: 2 years ago »
Any updates on this? I went to the OR farm a few weeks ago, and by the way the people talk about it, the program's still in place. Also, in regards to your article, I asked the tour guide and they said it was "Hippocampus kuda (gibberished subspecies)"
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  • Offline TamiW
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Re: Ocean Rider

« Reply #5 posted: 2 years ago »
No real updates from my end. A couple people from Project Seahorse reached out to me to ask if I knew any more about their program, but I don't. No one at Ocean Rider ever responded to any of my requests for more information about their program.

How was the tour? I've thought about going if I ever make it to Hawaii. It sounds amazing, though they did walk a friend out when they found out he bred seahorses so I might have to go incognito.

I never followed up with who to contact about the program in the Hawaii government. I am horrible about biting off more than I can chew. Maybe I should do that this week....
  • H. erectus, H. comes, H. kuda, H. zosterae, Doryrhamphus excisus, Bryx dunckeri, Corythoichthys flavofasciatus
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Re: Ocean Rider

« Reply #6 posted: 2 years ago »
The tour was good...but I was really surprised by the lack of real information. Additionally, I'm pretty sure that I overheard one of the tour guides telling a tourist that only a few other people have succeeded with breeding seahorses, and only 1 or 2 seahorses at that... :P Would you mind correcting me on some of the following statements about seahorses though? I can't say that I'm accurately quoting them word for word, but I'm doing my best to keep it pretty darn close:
"Wild seahorses are monogamous" ...that doesn't make sense from a survival POV. If you're mate died, and you were still sexually active, then why wouldn't you grab another mate and get at it to increase the number of your genes in the gene pool? Isn't the goal of reproduction to spread genes around?
"Our seahorses are domesticated" ...It took dog domestication quite a bit...how would you even start domesticating a seahorse? They said they selected for friendliness, size, and color...but  :-\
"Reidi seahorses are expert only seahorses" ...I thought these seahorses were among the easier seahorses to keep along with H.erectus? They definitely said that it was the postlarval ones, and not the larvae.
"Seahorses are endangered" ...H. capensis for sure, but I checked the IUCN, and most of the others were data deficient, right?
"Our seahorses are bred for color"...if seahorses have chromatophores, then how would breeding for color even work?
"We load our mysis with an algae called astaxanthin" ...I didn't even bother at this point...

Towards the end of the tour, when they showed the "variety" of seahorses that they kept, I was sorely disappointed. Half of the tanks in the room were of H. erectus. The other 8 were H. fisheri, H. capensis, H. abdominalis, H. whitei, H. kuda, and I think another species. What really surprised/irked me, was that they showed how their Pintos and other specialty seahorses were put in tanks that had deliberated colored hitching posts (red, yellow, and orange for the horses that were supposed to be yellow, and the tanks that had seahorses that were supposed to be white, had white decorations in them...and all the tanks with "normal" colored decorations (green, brown, etc.), had black seahorses in them.

When I saw their breeding setup, I did notice that none of the juvies were in kreisels, and I did ask about that. They gave some random answer that I did not understand in the slightest and finished up with something along the lines of "well, we seem to be doing just fine" when I told them about private hobbyist breeding and such...

Additionally, they did have us feed their seahorses opae'ula and mysis soaked in astaxanthin. What I didn't understand, was why the mysis was in chunks, not the whole shrimp like you mentioned in your article.

You may have to go incognito though. I never mentioned that I was a hobbyist, so I'm pretty sure that I slipped through the cracks...tickets online are 2$ less, and they charge $42 in person. I will commend them on their asking visitors to wash up to their elbows at sinks to get rid of sunscreen, as well as their efforts to breed weedy and leafy seadragons. However, the fact that they didn't mention the typical methods of rearing dropped eggs (egg tumblers etc) when they mentioned that the leafies had spawned did have me kind of worried...
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