NOWhereMonkey

HELP!!

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HELP!!

« posted: 11 months ago »
hello everyone,
  I have a huge issue and would like to get advice and see if what has been already recommended to me by Dan Underwood is enough or if I can do more as well... A week and a half ago my worst nightmare started, my kole tang didnt come out to eat in the morning like he usually does which was highly unusual. Evryone else was fine and happy. I looked him over but didnt see signs of anything and he was great and eating the night before. For night feeding he still did not eat and was hiding now. Next day he was on his side with loss of color and breathing heavy , few hours later he died. All was fine or so i thought until the following day when I noticed my clownfish with what looked like ich but im not sure if it was or not but what I do know is he had fin rot and fuzzy slime stuff on his coat. So i set up qt tank and dosed with furan2 . 2 days later my jawfish was looking bad with a cloudy eye and fuzzy stuff so I added him to the qt tank with clownfish (poor guy now seems to have popeye on same cloudy eye, as his eye is huge and you can see like dry blood builduo behind it) now I am at point where I dont know if to continue furan2 with him as well or give him popeye meds as well. So for now, I have continued it and added triple sulfa per Dan U. I also set up a seperate tank for my seahorses as one stopped eating about 3 days after jawfish did this. So now fish are all in qt and so are my seahorses. The day I set up tank 3 of my horses died (barbouri pair and male kuda went first). I knew something was wrong with horses because my barbouri started swimming at top of tank only like he was searching for air and both barbs were breathing very heavy,I immediately qt all of them and added all the aeration I mentioned below. The male barb was gone within an hr or 2 , next day my female barbouri and within hours my male kuda. Then today my male erectus died along with a bengal cardinal . Seahorses are on 4th day of furan 2 and triple sulfa being doses entire packet on first treatment and half packet every day with 50%water change. One of my seahorses 2 days ago developed a white patch as well but she is still eating and active so out of 7 horses I now have 3 left   :'( is there anything else I can do or medicate etc or is what I am doing all that can be done? I also have Hob filter , powerhead and airline since they were breathing heavy but I wonder if I can now just leave the HOB and thats it?? 

Tank history: it is an 80 gallon cylinder with heater, skimmer, UV in sump, and nothing in tank except tonga rock and shelves which I started off dry. Before the Kole died I tested water and all my parameters were good even nitrates were 5ppm, salinity was 1.025 which is what Ive always kept it at. I had only few gorgs a colt and sponges, and have SB reef lights.  Tank is very new it was set up in march or april and now has all this happening. I did have cyano outbreak which is supposedly normal Ive been told and I treated with chemipure ( could this have affected anything?) also after dosing I did water change and I am learning to make my own salt and fooled myself and read too soon at 1.24 and when i checked 24 hrs later it was 1.032 so I went to lfs and did almost 40%water change then  after this is when all this hell broke loose..


  Tank inhabitats besides few snails :  diamond goby, yellowhead jawfish, kole tang, clownfish, bengal cardinal, firefish, 2 kuda, 2 barbouri, tigertail and 2 erectus. Now i only have an erectus, kuda and tigertail left.

Will try to attach pic of seahorse with white patch at least everyone else has no visible signs of anything .
  • Erectus / tigertail
  • Offline vlangel
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Re: HELP!!

« Reply #1 posted: 11 months ago »
O my, I am sorry that you are going through all this.  I am sure that I can not add any more to what Dan Underwood has suggested as he is much more experienced and knowledgable than I.

My first thought was when I read about your tank size and the inhabitants is that for seahorses you were overstocked.  I don't say that to be harsh as you may not have known that seahorses put an extremely heavy bioload on their tank.  As a result the typical guidelines for reef tanks do not apply to seahorse tanks.  Most seahorse keepers only recommend 1 pair for every 30 gallons.

Also having other fish with your seahorses is a risk.  Its not that it can never be done but it decreases your chances of successfully keeping seahorses and you need to be aware of that.
Even keeping different species of seahorses together that have come from separate sources can present a risk that many seahorse keepers are not willing to take a chance on.

That all being said, it sounds like the treatment that you are proceeding with is a reasonable one. 
If the 3 seahorses you have left continue to eat well and appear to act healthy then you need to improve the conditions in your display tank before you return them into it.  The symptoms that your fish displayed were so varied that I can not conclusively diagnose the exact problem.  Depending on the problem, it may be risky even returning the ponies into that tank.   Most of us can not buy a new set up though.   So if the tank were mine own I would probably make clean salt water in buckets and remove all your rock into those buckets.  Then I would deep clean the tank by wiping down all the surfaces and syphoning the sandbed.  In fact I would even remove the sandbed altogether and run the tank bare bottom for a time.  I would replace at least half the water with freshly made salt water.  Then I would return your live rock into the tank and add artificial plants or decor for hitches.  Any snails and clean up crew I would return in the tank for overnight.  The next day I would check ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.  If they are all 0, then I would do another 25 % water change  and perhaps introduce the erectus first.  If it seems to look alright after several hours or an overnight, then add your remaining 2 seahorses.  Assuming your 3 remaining ponies adjust then I would not add anymore fish or seahorses for a long time (several months).  I would enjoy the 3 seahorses and learn as much as you can about their care and maintenance.  Seahorses have some particular needs that are important if you are to keep them successfully, particularly when it comes to pathogenic bacteria.  Different folks here will help you learn how to control bacteria and what equipment is most helpful.  Seahorses are a high maintenance pet but they are worth it.
  • H erectus, banded pipefish
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Re: HELP!!

« Reply #2 posted: 11 months ago »
Thank you for replying,
As of now I am starting from scratch horses are still in qt and have several days of meds left but in the meantime i am tearing down tank and adding bleach to it and taking out what rock I can and sand and snails as well. Throwing away sand and the biggest task so far is finding all my nassarius snails as Ive got some babies and they all are in sand bed I can see all of them so when I empty sand bed I guess ill go through it the best I can . I will also use something Dan told me to remove the chlorine from tank after 24 hrs of treating with bleach and will do same with my skimmer and my best with my sump . After this i plan on keeping tank empty until probably november or december I may have to slowly add back my gorgs as I cant keep them in a plastic tub on their side for this length of time they are already unhappy in it I can tell they have begun to shed so I need to get them back in ASAP. I only have a 10 gallon tank other than  this and they were too tall since they were specifically for the 80 so kinda stuck with that part lol...
  • Erectus / tigertail
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Re: HELP!!

« Reply #3 posted: 11 months ago »
Thank you for replying,
As of now I am starting from scratch horses are still in qt and have several days of meds left but in the meantime i am tearing down tank and adding bleach to it and taking out what rock I can and sand and snails as well. Throwing away sand and the biggest task so far is finding all my nassarius snails as Ive got some babies and they all are in sand bed I can see all of them so when I empty sand bed I guess ill go through it the best I can . I will also use something Dan told me to remove the chlorine from tank after 24 hrs of treating with bleach and will do same with my skimmer and my best with my sump . After this i plan on keeping tank empty until probably november or december I may have to slowly add back my gorgs as I cant keep them in a plastic tub on their side for this length of time they are already unhappy in it I can tell they have begun to shed so I need to get them back in ASAP. I only have a 10 gallon tank other than  this and they were too tall since they were specifically for the 80 so kinda stuck with that part lol...
That sounds like a good plan and I wish you the best as you implement it.
  • H erectus, banded pipefish
The Lord created the ocean and said it is good!
  • Offline Laurasea
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Re: HELP!!

« Reply #4 posted: 11 months ago »
So sorry for your loss.  Your 80 gallon is an exceptional beautiful tank. 
The cyno can rapidly deplete oxygen in an aquarium, this could have been part of your problem, before you descended into a cluster f@Ęk.  ( I too once had spiralling out of control cluster)
Once you treat for cyno you have to do many large water changes ( think is on directions??) 
I also killed my first seahorse with a salinity problem when I was doing many water changes in fear of a different problem.  My salinity reader was that cheap plastic kind and they can be very inaccurate.  If you haven't already spend the 100 bucks for the top of the one ones.  The rapid increase then decrease in salinity in of itself could have read to death.   
I think that the cyno bloom drove down your oxygen in your tank.  The cyno was also showing you were have a build up of waste.  Cyno can also effect your ph (were you checking that?)  Then you killed off all the cyno which leaves some toxic waste,  then all the build up of waste that the cyno was feeding on, now isn't getting broken down..
Remember rapid changes in a saltwater aquarium are never good.  Rather than buying a product to kill cyno, it is better to find the cause of the cyno in the first place and fix that.  Sometimes it is a slow battle.... I have had a big cyno problem in the past so I know the frustration.   If you rapidly stocked your tank you might have reached the tipping point were it couldn't handle the bio load especially since this was a young tank.  If you didn't add any other type of medications to your 80 gallon tank than the cyno treatment, I would rinse it well and get back up and running and cycling.   I myself have had much luck quickly cycling a tank with macro and sail fin black mollies (converted to saltwater over a few days).  Then slowly adding a bit of I've rock ( tiny amount like a bit of rubble) and adding maybe one tank critter a month, let your tank mature to the bio mass slowly. 
Anyway I am sure you already have a handle on most of this information :) just wanted to share what I have learned.   Looks like once you get back up to speed you will have a gorgeous aquarium.  Look forward to having you share you journey.
  • H.comes and H.erectus, H. reidi
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Re: HELP!!

« Reply #5 posted: 11 months ago »
Thank you I did know some of the information and I did do several water changes after chemiclean. I also just lost my other female last night the one I posted a pic of with the spot :( so now im down to 2 and ive got 3 days left of meds. Im really hoping these 2 make it as the last one was eating and active and just suddenly died.
  • Erectus / tigertail
  • Offline Laurasea
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Re: HELP!!

« Reply #6 posted: 11 months ago »
Are the two you have left showing signs of illness or infection?  If they don't have signs of illness I (a personal opinion, to be weighed  with your knowledge and experience) would stop the medication sometimes the cure itself is very hard and stressful on the seahorses.   Some medication can lead to kidney failure and toxicity.... But if they do show signs of active infection keep going.  If it is possible for you to get them live mysis, you can order from Sachs aquaculture, it can really get them eating.  The live food also seems to boost their immunity. Are you enriching their food?  So sorry for your losses.  I am hoping you save your last two.  Also hoping you don't give up, all of us seahorse lovers have been through terrible trying times.  There is a thread hear somewhere sharing some heartbreaking stories, including one of my own.
  • H.comes and H.erectus, H. reidi
May your joy be as deep as the ocean,
Your sorrows as light as the foam.

Re: HELP!!

« Reply #7 posted: 11 months ago »
No they are very active and eating and not seeing any external signs of anything. I have stopped the medication and am doing water changes daily to get all meds out of tank. I have dona about half of my display tank as well as far as emptying goes but i am having trouble getting the siphon to continue to get the sand out. So still slowly working on that part.  Thank yal for the help :)
  • Erectus / tigertail