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More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

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  • Offline TamiW
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More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

« posted: 2 years ago »
Hikari seems to be having trouble with their mysis. Sfbb and PE. No one seems to be able to get mysis that isn't discolored. Sfbb isn't even willing to take blame for it shipped to my door. I don't know what I'm going to do. I've had to feed tan mysis, because that is all I have.

I'm waiting on an answer from Hikari and PE on if there is any other cause of discoloration aside from oxidation. I'm doubtful. One vendor sent me brown PE mysis, and said they they told him it was normal and part of their packing proces and the water their collected in. But PE removes the water from their mysis, so I don't know what gives. It feels like I've been chasing down good mysis and failing! Right now, feeding some tan mysis, because it's all I can get, like it or not.




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  • Offline Bruce
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Re: More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

« Reply #1 posted: 2 years ago »
The Hikari doesn't look too bad but the big pack in the second pix looks really brown. This happened to me a few years back when I got my LFS to order some PE for me. The first case was white and I bought up most of it for my horses. The second case was brown like yours and after I threw away the first pack (I only used one corner for one feedings it smelled bad too) I wouldn't buy it from the LFS again.

I don't know if this is the new normal but it looks like it has turned to me. Maybe because it has defrosted at some point and refrozen.

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  • Offline TamiW
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Re: More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

« Reply #2 posted: 2 years ago »
I'm going back and forth what to think. Lipid oxidation does cause color shift from white to tan than brown. But the past year, I seem to only find darker mysis. I've talked to a few manufacturers, and I've gotten different answers, but the point that keeps sticking with me is that oxidized shrimp will go through those color stages.

So am I seeing a different reason for this color, or is it part of the oxidation process. And if it's sort of tan, and that does turn out to be part of the oxidation process. Just how bad is it? What about cases where the the glazing the mysis is the darker coloration but the mysis looks white? Oxidation is an exponential process, so what might it mean if the "broth" is brown but the mysis is good?

I'm at Aquatic Experience in Chicago and there are a bunch of frozen food producers here, so I bugged a few today. I plan to resume tomorrow.

I caught a talk from George Blasiola, who works with food and fish nutrition. His talk was on nutrition where he emphasized the problems with rancid lipids. I'm hoping to pull him aside tomorrow and ask some follow up questions to get an expert opinion.

On thing I have noticed is that PE mysis before (probably when you were last raising seahorses) was a lot whiter than it is now. Or rather was white with orange bellies. Not the case anymore.

I do wonder and worry that it's the "new normal" too, but I was getting good mysis last year. And even got a couple cases of SFBB mysis that looked pretty white in spring. I have some pictures of Hikari mysis from a couple years back that is white white. That was from PetSmart, where they ship direct from Hikari's warehouse to Petsmart. That seemed like pretty damning evidence that the mysis shouldn't be the color it is. (Petsmart no longer carries frozen Hikari food, at least around here,.)

If brown is the new normal, I hope it's not due to oxidation and is some other proceeds.

« Last Edit: 2 years ago by TamiW »

  • H. erectus, H. comes, H. kuda, H. zosterae, Doryrhamphus excisus, Bryx dunckeri, Corythoichthys flavofasciatus
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  • Offline Laurasea
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Re: More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

« Reply #3 posted: 2 years ago »
All mine has been Brown too here in Florida.  Yuck.  I rinse and rinse, and put in fridge immediately, but it rots before the day is out!!!! I have searched every store for the best they have, but I am not happy with the new normal either  >:(!!
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  • Offline rayjay
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Re: More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

« Reply #4 posted: 2 years ago »
I've never had any mysis as dark as the dark package shown above.
Also, I don't thaw any until I'm actually feeding it.
I feed three times a day--I thaw three times a day.
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  • Offline TamiW
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Re: More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

« Reply #5 posted: 2 years ago »
All mine has been Brown too here in Florida.  Yuck.  I rinse and rinse, and put in fridge immediately, but it rots before the day is out!!!! I have searched every store for the best they have, but I am not happy with the new normal either  >:(!!

I spent a lot of time discussing foods with manufacturers this weekend, and flustering many of them. I spoke to George Blasiola and Julian Sprung (briefly) about their take on what I'm seeing. George gave a fantastic talk on fish nutrition, and a later one on fish health. He let me pick his brain a bit. But their consensus was that there is probably oxidation. George suggested independent lab testing to confirm my suspicions, which is the direction I've been leaning anyway, and he had some great advice on how I'd go about doing that.

It most definitely shouldn't be rotting in the same day you defrost. That suggests there is some bad stuff going on before you even open the package. Oxidation is a complex chain of reactions where the end stage is the dark brown, and that is probably where you are at. If you don't mind me asking, brand are you using?

I spoke to so many people and really picked their brains that at one point the rep from PE walked by when I was taking to Hikari, she stopped and said 'hi' and commented on how "she recognized that speech" in a very friendly way. (She was awesome in general).

I've got conflicting info and some back biting between manufacturers. I have much more follow up to do, and plan to summarize the remembered conversations as an article.

Rayjay, I wonder if being in Canada plays a role. Maybe they have stricter import laws that require better handling, some countries do.  It's just a guess? Do you get PE mysis there?

I've also been experimenting with enriching adult brine shrimp as food for the adults. Thanks in large part to your suggestion to reconsider brine shrimp. It's too early to say how it's doing for the seahorses. But as I read more, the more I am convinced its a great addition to their diet as long as its cleaned properly and feed properly.
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  • Offline rayjay
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Re: More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

« Reply #6 posted: 2 years ago »
Tami, yes it's available here. To the best of my knowledge it originates from here in Western Canada where it's harvested from a lake or lakes there.
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  • Offline Bruce
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Re: More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

« Reply #7 posted: 2 years ago »
I still say it has been thawed and refrozen, probably sometime along the way to the LFS. Basically it is rancid and I would never use that for my horses. I would check a few more stores and see how the PE looks in their freezers.

I don't think enriched brine shrimp will cut it as a staple diet for horses. PE was always the best food and it would be a shame if it has gone downhill.

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  • Offline TamiW
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Re: More big, bad tan and brown mysis.

« Reply #8 posted: 2 years ago »
Oh no, I didn't mean brine shrimp as a staple for seahorses. (Though watch out, @rayjay schooled me on the common misconception about brine shrimp nutritional value.) But I'm looking into it because I'm a strong believer that seahorses shouldn't have a single food item diet. I sometimes offer small krill, but they seem pretty picky about it. And that is where playing around with enriched brine shrimp comes in - at first I was feeding primarily to give the seahorses some stimulation, but later moved on to trying to enrich it with either algaes or Dan's Feed. I'd like to offer an even wider selection of foods, but there are not a lot of options seahorses will accept.
  • H. erectus, H. comes, H. kuda, H. zosterae, Doryrhamphus excisus, Bryx dunckeri, Corythoichthys flavofasciatus
It's all about the snick!